Last-modified: Thu Jan 10 23:09:06 2008
Summary: General questions that people who are beginning to explore under the umbrella of "progressive" music often ask. Includes answers to many questions that are posted by newcomers to rec.music.progressive.
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Phil Zampino (zampino AT squidco.com)
Mike Borella (cathmike AT xnet.com)
Phil Kime (Philip AT kime.org.uk)
As the name suggests, a form concentrating on ambience rather than normal characteristics such as melody, harmony and rhythm.
Examples: Some Eno, Laraaji, much new age music.
A name that is used to refer to early explorative work that had roots in pop. Quite often a display of attitude in addition to any musical features. It is an abused term that seems to refer as much to appearence as to music in its more common coinage.
Examples: Be Bop Deluxe, early Eno, Roxy Music
A region in England where a unique style originated. The region's name has now become the label for the style of music. One of the earliest forms recognised as progressive, Canterbury music emphasises laconic complexity and usually sounds identifiably English. The ideas resulting from this form of music were very original. Often quite jazzy in a light and airy sort of way, integrating jazz influences in unique ways.
Examples: Caravan, Soft Machine, Hatfield & The North, National Health
More accessibly related, bands starting with The Nice that attempted to fuse classical music with rock structures. Often felt to be quite pompous yet were quite successful in their time. Often a three man format.
Examples: The Nice, ELP, Le Orme, Ekseption, Trace, The Trip
Often mis-categorized by being as "new age", much of this music was around far before that abused term was coined. Very explorative, this is a wide open field and is typified by the use of almost all electronic equipment, hence the name. There is often a concentration on sonority and texture over and above other musical attributes. Often very spacious and ethereal. Sometimes quite darkly powerful but not in the way that ambient industrial material tends to be. The sorts of sounds explored tend to be within the less extreme synthesiser range.
Examples: 70's Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Steve Roach, some Popol Vuh, later Kit Watkins, Jean-Michel Jarre
Often hard core experiemental material. The fringes of music where almost anything can happen. Almost always difficult for the newcomer. Considerable use of noise, found objects, music concrete and sometimes even power tools. Generally focusing on texture and sonority to the expense of all else. A fascinating area for the adventurous.
Examples: Einstürzende Neubauten, Nurse With Wound, Hafler Trio, Main, Coil
Explorative jazz-rock: a fusion as the name suggests. Maybe a little jazzier than most progressive music, but rockier than most jazz. Quite a established and exciting genre with often virtuoso playing.
Examples: Mahavishnu Orchestra, Brand X, Iceberg, Arti+Mestieri
Slighltly politically uncorrect term used harmlessly to refer to a form of usually rather strange rock originating from Germany in the 70s. Typified by a loose, improvisational style with a large proportion of experimentation and slightly whimsical flavour. Often difficult to listen to, quite sinister and covertly intellectual. Very influential in all sorts of areas even today. Some people regard it as the precursor to industrial music proper which is fair: there are similarities but probably as many differences. See Chris Moon's informative Krautrock guide at:
http://www.progrock.net/prog/Misc/german
Examples: Can, Amon Düül II, Faust, Xhol, Agitation Free, early Tangerine Dream, Ash Ra Tempel
Music that fused 20th century classical music with new rock structures. Sometimes referred to as "chamber rock, this can be difficult to appreciate at first as artists of this ilk were way out on a limb and quite different. Also, it tends to be very complex, requiring many listens to reach a fair appreciation. One of the least understood genres about which most people are completely oblivious yet one of the most rewarding.
Examples: Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, ZNR
Symphonic rock done in a typically simplified or more commercial format. Often rich and melodious but without the complexity of traditional progressive music. Mostly an 80's and 90's phenomenon.
Examples: Marillion, iQ, Pendragon, Twelfth Night, Aragon, Jadis, Grey Lady Down
A variety of music that took simple folk songs and did something quite new with them. There were many forms of this.
Examples: Emtidi, Witthüser & Westrupp, Malicorne, Mellow Candle
Heavy metal that is influenced by symphonic rock or fusion. Usually is much more complex than standard metal and emphasising virtuoso instrumentalists.
Examples: Dream Theater, Fates Warning, Watchtower, Siege's Even, Cynic, Atheist
A name coined by ex-Henry Cow drummer Chris Cutler. This type of music consistently defies categorization (except for "RIO") and is extremely challenging and often hard to listen to. However, it is very rewarding in the long run. The lyrical bent is often political, especially for those bands Cutler has a hand in. Technically, bands like Art Zoyd and Univers Zero are RIO as they subscribed to Cutlers broad musical ethic in its original conception. However, the label has outgrown its original political connotations and is now used to refer to artists potraying a similar approach to the seminal Henry Cow, the central RIO band. See Q's and A's below for a better description of RIO. See Phil Zampino's (zampino AT squidco.com) Web site for much information on RIO labels and artists at:
http://www.panix.com/~zampino/rer/
Examples: Henry Cow, Art Bears, Samla Mammas Manna, News From Babel, Thinking Plague, Etron Fou Leloublan etc.
A rough term given specifically to the superb band Gong for their unique blend of jazz fusion and extended sweeping ambience. Often very energetic and concentrating on long jams of psychadelic tinged soloing. Generally a high level of musicianship in tight restraint to give a clean, atmosphere of bright and effervescent fusion. "Swooshy" is a perfect adjective.
Examples: Gong, Ozric Tentacles, Neo, Carpe Diem, some Djam Karet
Like the above but without the jazz edge, more of a straight forward type of space rock. Hawkwind were almost the be all and end all of this genre and were the innovators.
Examples: Hawkwind, Amon Düül (the English line-up)
Characterized by rich keys/synths and very melodic vocals and often structured like a piece of classical music, arranged for an extended rock instrumentation. Very much stretching the limits of the rock format. If someone derides progressive music, this is almost always the sort of thing they are talking about. You will often hear this genre mistakenly used as a synonym for the entirety of progressive music and called "pretentious" or "overblown". Criticisms that completely miss the point and often belie some misguided idea that all good music must either display a certain feature or must be simple and "direct".
Examples: Yes (early), Genesis (early), Camel, Atoll, Mirthrandir, Änglagård
One of the truly unique and little-known areas of music typified and largely due to the incredible French band Magma. It is a term used to refer to a particular brand of jazz fusion, sometimes with heavy Coltrane influences but adopting a grandiosity and harmonic language from certain classical works, particularly Stravinsky's "Les Noces". Unlike anything else and a personal favourite of the present FAQ maintainer. Often powerful beyond words.
Examples: Magma, Weidorje, Zao, Shub-Niggurath, Honeyelk, Musique Noise
alt.music.yes exists and is the place to discuss Yes on the net. However, since Yes was one of the more influential progressive bands, it only makes sense that Yes should be talked about on r.m.p. However, not everyone can agree about the "progressiveness" of newer Yes, and many flamewars have erupted over this issue, and related issues. So, alt.music.yes was created. While a.m.y is still a relatively new newsgroup (created in June, 1994), it still is not certain whether all discussion of Yes will go to a.m.y or not. Probably not. If you are not certain which newsgroup to post Yes material to, here is a handy guide.
Yes that has nothing to do with prog in general -- alt.music.yes
Yes in context with some other prog band(s) -- both (r.m.p and a.m.y)
A reference to Yes when discussing another prog band -- r.m.p
Pre-Rabin Yes -- a.m.y and maybe r.m.p (use your judgement)
Rabin-era Yes -- a.m.y
How much you hate Trevor Rabin or Yes in general -- neither
The point is that many people want to be able to discuss Yes in detail without being flamed for liking the 80's and 90's version of the band. Others would like to be able to state their (negative) opinions about Yes without being flamed. Other prog fans do not listen to Yes, and are tired of 90% of the discussion on r.m.p being about Yes. The advantages of a.m.y include (hopefully) taking care of these three issues. One possible disadvantage is that people who might have developed an interest in other progressive rock bands via Yes discussion on r.m.p may not get that chance any more. In any case, these are tenative guidelines to follow. What you post and where you post it is up to you. If you would like to avoid starting flamewars and useless discussions, following these guidelines may help.
The definitive place to find out about Rennaissance is Northern Lights - The Renaissance Web Page
Yes. Magma's drummer (and leader) Christian Vander created the language "Kobaïan", which is what you are hearing sung on most Magma albums. Recently, work has gone into compiling a phrasebook of Kobaïan worlds and their Engligh translations. You can find this on the Magma home page at
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/
From Marcelo Spindola Bacha (dronsz AT if.ufrj.br): Kobaïan is not exactly a Vander idea, it was based in an original project from Klaus Blasquiz, as results of some of their studies about representing graphically other kind of phonemas ... Kobaïan is not really a language, it is quite incomplete, and it is always changing, as Vander says. It sounds rather Germanic and slightly Russian.
They are the same thing. It is a huge listing of progressive bands, with their discographies and reviews and overviews of their releases. It was originally compiled by Dave Markfield in late 1991, but a more recent version was put together by Mike Taylor in early 1993. It is an A to Z dictionary of progressive music, and though it is still incomplete, it contains info on over 1100 artists. Phil Kime originally put it on-line and it has now moved to a new home, maintained by Fred Trafton at:
NOTE: If you are looking for an idea of what particular bands sound like, or are new to prog and want to get an idea of what is out there, I strongly suggest perusing the GEPR.
Station information
WOZN 98.7 FM Key West, Florida Sunday Evening 10PM-Midnight WPLT 93.9 FM Plattsburgh, New York Sunday Evening around 8PM-10 WOUI 88.9 FM Chicago, Illinois Wednesday Evening 6PM-8PM
Playlists for the previous week are posted each week on r.m.p.
Yes, there were several. Most notably, PFM released Storia d'un Minuto, Per Un Amico, and L'Isola di Niente in Italian. Manticore (I think this was Peter Sinfield's label...he did write the lyrics for the English verison but I have also heard ELP started it) released Photos of Ghosts and The World Became the World with remixed instrumentation and English vocals and titles. These partially cover the three Italian albums. Photos of Ghosts is basically all of Per Un Amico, plus `Generale!' which is from Storia d'un Minuto. The World Became the World is L'Isola di Niente plus the title track, from Storia d'un Minuto. Both of the English versions are poor pressings, and in general, people agree that the original Italian versions are far superior, both technically and performance-wise.
Other bands to do the same are RDM (Contamination is the English version of Contaminazione) and Maxophone (English version has the same title).
From afcpeters AT aol.com (Peter Stoller): The Mellotron is a keyboard instrument in which the sounds are produced by strips of prerecorded analog tape dragged slowly over playback heads. Think of it as a mechanical, analog sample-playback device. Tape `patches' were usually of strings, choirs, flutes and such. The Beatles were probably the first to use them, but the Mellotron was popularized by King Crimson, the Moody Blues and Genesis. (Wakeman used them with Yes, but they were rarely dominant. Emerson never used one.) Songs such as Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King" and Genesis' "Watcher of the Skies" are good examples of the Mellotron sound.
The Chamberlin was a similar instrument from a different manufacturer, and Wakeman had someone build him an improved version of the Mellotron called the Birotron. Patrick Moraz played a Vako Orchestron, which was the same principal, but using the playback technology employed in film projectors, rather than tape.
From rogoff AT std.teradyne.com (David Rogoff): For each key there is a 5' length of tape (= 8sec @ 7.5''/sec). One end rests on a capstan (rotating metal cylinder that runs the width of the whole keyboard. On each key is a pinch roller. When you press the key down, the tape is pressed against the capstan and starts moving. This is exactly the same as in a cassette deck. Also under the tape (again one for each key) is a tape playback head. So, the tape is pulled across the head, generating the sound. If you hold the key for more than 8 seconds the sound (and the tape) just stops. When you let go of the key, a spring pulls the tape back. This takes about a 1/8 second, so you can't play 64th note trills on the thing. In fact, you never want to hit the keys: you sort of push them down. The action takes some getting used to.
Also, Each tape is 3/8" wide made up of 3 1/8" tracks for 3 different sounds. A big lever moved the whole tape head assembly from side to side to chose the different sounds. If you have access to a 1/2" four track reel-to-reel you can make your own tapes pretty easily. It just takes a long time! I've been describing the Mellotron-400, the most common and most "portable" model.
Note that this response only applies to US copyright law. As of this writing there has not been a specific legal precedent set. In other words, a case has not been brought before a court involving taping of non-bootleg material. The current status of the law regarding home taping is best summed up by Terry Carroll's Copyright FAQ at:
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/Copyright-FAQ/top.html
From afcpeters AT aol.com (Peter Stoller): Rock In Opposition. It was an assemblage of European progressive bands who were defining a style "in opposition" to the English language domination of the pop music industry. Key elements were that groups sang in their native languages (or, in Magma's case, created their own), and they drew much of their source material from their own national folk, popular and classical musics, instead of using the American blues-based model.
RIO started as the name of a festival in London organised by Henry Cow in 1978 and featuring groups from Italy, Sweden, France and Belgium. After the concert, they decided to formalize the coalition. They organized tours and festivals in each others countries. According to Henry Cow drummer/lyricist Chris Cutler, RIO as an organization failed due to political and philosophical differences: there is no longer an official RIO, and has not been for some time but it succeeded and has continued to grow as a cultural phenomenon.
The original RIO artists were Henry Cow, Samla Mammas Manna, Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, Stormy Six, Art Bears, Aqsak Maboul, and Etron Fou Leloublan. Associated artists include Magma, Albert Marcoeur, ZNR, Feliu y Joan Albert, Musica Urbana, Goebbels & Harth, Kraldjursanstalten, Unrest, Work & Play, The Residents, Faust, L. Voag, Mnemonists, This Heat, Cassiber, Thinking Plague, Haniwa Chan, and John Oswald. (There are, of course, many others.) This information was derived from Cutler's book, "File Under Popular" (see FAQ 3).
From Mike Borella (cathmike AT xnet.com): The term RIO is now used as a way of describing some of the more indescribable musics created today by artists that are influenced to some degree by the original RIO artists. The "new" RIO influenced bands would include U Totem, Thinking Plaugue, 5UU's, Lacrymosa, and maybe Banda Elastika. So when someone says that a new band sound like RIO, you know that maybe be influenced by RIO or are just weird/elcectic or just strange.
See Phil Zampino's (zampino AT squidco.com) Web site dedicated to RIO artists and labels at:
From barrett AT cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett): There have been 4 versions on CD: two from One Way Records in the USA, and two from Terrapin Trucking, a.k.a. Road Goes On Forever (RGOF), in Great Britain. Summary: there are large differences between the first three versions, and the Terrapin/RGOF versions are acknowledged by fans to be the best.
Now for the longer answer. The first CD came from One Way Records, number CDL 57338. This disc was mastered from inferior American master tapes and sounds very muffled. If you turn up your treble control, the disc sounds almost normal, but overall the sound is mediocre.
In response to complaints from fans, One Way recalled all the old CD's from stores, sought out better master tapes, and rereleased Free Hand with the SAME identification number, CDL 57338. It is not possible to distinguish between the first and second Free Hand CD's from the packaging. The only way to tell by eye is to open the package and examine the code number stamped on the disc rim. The old disc says "AM6/CDL 57338", and the new disc says "ESK 1 <010> CDL 57338".
The second One Way disc has much better sound. The master tape that One Way used, however, is a very strange one. It is not the same tape that was used for any previous release of the album, and the music is actually different from the original! In "Time To Kill", Derek Schulman sings some of the lines instead of Ray Schulman; for example, `And with no questions then, he finds his way'. In "On Reflection", the drums come in half a verse earlier than in the original. And worst of all, at the climax of "On Reflection", when the full band comes crashing in, the drums are barely audible! This CD is worth owning because it is different from any previous release, but it is notrepresentative version of the album.
Next, Terrapin/RGOF released their first Free Hand disc, identification number RGF CD 1004. It uses the correct master tapes and has very good sound quality. I find it a little bit bass-heavy, but it is much better than the other versions. Some fans complained that the disc had too much hiss, and Terrapin/RGOF remastered it to remove hiss, giving the disc a new identification number, TRUCKCD 004. Reportedly, the differences between the two Terrapin/RGOF discs are minor. If you own only 1 Free Hand CD, get this one.